78 reacties op dit onderwerp

[The Watcher]

Koninklijke familie van Servië en Joegoslavie, volgens henzelf althans.

Hun website: http://www.royalfamily.org

Weet iemand of ze nog goede kans maken om de troon ooit terug te krijgen of zal het altijd een droom voor hen blijven?

[The Watcher]

De kerstwensen van 2005 van deze familie

Bijgevoegde Bestanden

•  CHRISTMAS2006_eng.jpg   40K   75 downloads

[Someone]

En hier wat geschiedenis van dit vorstenhuis (opnieuw wikipedia):

Peter I van Servie

Opvallend, zeker gezien verhaal over Montenegro: hij was destijds wel koning, maar zijn zoon Alexander trad op als regent.

[juustem]

Heeft iemand foto's van ene Boris van Servie-Montenegro?

[Someone]

Heeft iemand foto's van ene Boris van Servie-Montenegro?

Zie het topic over de koninklijke familie van Montenegro; speciaal op jouw verzoek geopend...

[Someone]

Koninklijke familie van Servië en Joegoslavie, volgens henzelf althans.

Hun website: http://www.royalfamily.org

Weet iemand of ze nog goede kans maken om de troon ooit terug te krijgen of zal het altijd een droom voor hen blijven?

Vreemd dat ze zichzelf 'Servie en Joegoslavie' noemen, bij mijn weten was Servie een onderdeel van Joegoslavie (wat verder dus zowel de Kroaten als Bosniers als Montenegrijnen (of hoe die mensen daar ook heten) etc. in zich borg).

[The Watcher]

Servië in de ban van koninklijk verleden

Tijdens het communistische bewind in voormalig Joegoslavië werd het koninklijke verleden van Servië doodgezwegen. Maar sinds in een Servisch dorpje een verre verwant van de in 1903 bijna uitgemoorde koninklijke familie werd opgespoord, is het land opnieuw in de ban van zijn verleden.

Sinds de Tweede Wereldoorlog werd in Servië nauwelijks nog over de monarchie gesproken. Na de val van het communisme vijf jaar geleden, keerden de leden van de koninklijke familie Karadjordjevic, die in Joegoslavië heerste van 1903 tot de Tweede Wereldoorlog, echter terug naar hun Witte Paleis (zie www.royalfamily.org). Ze houden zich nu voornamelijk bezig met humanitair werk.

Na de val van het communisme kwam ook een ander verhaal weer boven water, dat van de inmiddels vrijwel vergeten Obrenovics, de koninklijke familie die voor de Karadjordjevics op de troon zat. Tot verbazing van veel mensen werden in het dorpje Donja Gorevnica, een paar honderd kilometer ten zuiden van Belgrado, verre familieleden opgespoord. Alom werd aangenomen dat de hele familie was uitgemoord tijdens de staatsgreep die de Karadjordjevics in 1903 aan de macht bracht.

Het meest directe familielid is de 81-jarige Milutin Novakovic, een eenvoudige boer die al zijn hele leven in het dorpje Donja Gorevnica woont. Zijn kleindochter Ljiljana zocht de familiegeschiedenis uit en maakte de banden met de koninklijke familie aannemelijk. Milutin en zijn vrouw Jelica (76) worden sindsdien bestookt door de media, die onder meer willen weten of Milutin de titel �prins� gaat aannemen.

Zwaard
Milutin lijkt echter weinig behoefte hebben om zijn huidige leventje te veranderen. In zijn huis is niets koninklijks te vinden. Na de Tweede Wereldoorlog schonken de Novakovics een koninklijk zwaard dat in de familie was aan het museum in Cacak. Daar is het nog steeds.

De moderne geschiedenis van Servië werd bepaald door de Obrenovicdynastie. De stichter van de dynastie, Milos Obrenovic (1780-1860), leidde de tweede Servische opstand tegen de Turken. Onder zijn bewind werd Servië een onafhankelijk hertogdom in het Ottomaanse Rijk.

Milutin Novakovic is de achterachterkleinzoon van een van Milo’s halfbroers. In 1903 werd de laatste Obrenovic, de kinderloze koning Alexander, vermoord tijdens een bloedige staatsgreep. De Karadjordjevics bestuurden het land vervolgens tot 1941.

In het Karadjordjevictijdperk was het beter om niet hardop over de Obrenovics te spreken. In de communistische periode daarna werd over beide koninklijke families gezwegen. Geschiedenisboeken verwezen hooguit in een paar paragrafen naar beide dynastieën, meestal door alleen de opeenvolgende vorsten en hun rol in de geschiedenis kort te noemen.

Novakovic’ advocaat Nebojsa Pavlovic, die samen met Ljiljana en de Servische historicus Rados Ljusic de familiebanden uitzocht, zegt dat de kwestie vooral draait om de koninklijke erfenis. Na de val van de Servische leider Slobodan Milosovic, vijf jaar geleden, verschenen er berichten in de media over waardevolle schilderijen en huizen die ooit in het bezit van de Obrenovics waren en die stonden te wachten op een erfgenaam.

Testament
De bezittingen waren ooit eigendom van koningin Natalija, de moeder van koning Alexander. Natalija overleefde haar zoon bijna veertig jaar. Ze stierf in 1941 in ballingschap in Frankrijk. Haar testament is nog steeds niet geopend, omdat er geen erfgenamen werden gevonden.

Uit onderzoek van de Franse autoriteiten blijkt dat de familie nog 52 verre verwanten heeft in Servië. Milutin Novakovic is van hen het directst verwant. „Het gaat in deze kwestie niet alleen om de villa in Frankrijk, huizen in Boedapest en schilderijen ergens in Zwitserland�, zegt Rados Ljusic. „Het gaat ook om informatie die in documenten staat die bij het testament bewaard worden. Daaruit kunnen we wellicht meer te weten komen over de geschiedenis van Servië.�

Koningin Natalija zou volgens de verhalen teleurgesteld zijn in haar zoon Alexander, die op zijn vierentwintigste trouwde met een oudere, kinderloze weduwe. Ljusic zegt dat de koningin een deel van haar bezittingen aan de Novakovics wilde geven. Die zouden dat geweigerd hebben, uit angst voor de macht van de Karadjordjevics.

Natalija schonk wel twee goudmijnen in het oosten van Servië aan de universiteit van Belgrado. Die werden na de oorlog geconfisqueerd door de communisten. De universiteit hoopt mijnen en andere geschonken bezittingen terug te krijgen als binnenkort de nieuwe wet op teruggave van geconfisqueerd bezit van kracht wordt. (IPS)

Van www.refdag.nl

[Someone]

Interessant verhaal The Watcher! De Karadjordjevics zijn dus maar kort aan de macht geweest! 'k Zit me even af te vragen hoe zij uberhaupt op de troon zijn gekomen (heeft volgens mij een en ander te maken met Montenegro-verhaal, maar precies weet ik het zo niet).

[Joke]

Een tijdje geleden is er op vitaya (een Belgische zender) een realityreeks geweest. Ze volgede een Prinses die getrouwd is met Amerikaanse acteur en ze woonde in Californie. Ik dacht dat ze Servie en Joegeslavie was. Ik denk het maar ik ben niet zeker.

[Arjan]

Een tijdje geleden is er op vitaya (een Belgische zender) een realityreeks geweest. Ze volgede een Prinses die getrouwd is met Amerikaanse acteur en ze woonde in Californie. Ik dacht dat ze Servie en Joegeslavie was. Ik denk het maar ik ben niet zeker.

Het gaat hier om de reality soap 'I Married A Princess', met daarin actrice Catherine Oxenberg en haar man, acteur Casper Van Dien. Catherine Oxenberg was in de jaren '80 bekend van de serie 'Dynasty'. Zij heeft ook een keer Diana, prinses van Wales gespeeld in een film.

Catherine is dochter van prinses Elizabeth van Joegoslavië, een nicht van kroonprins Alexander. Via haar grootmoeder, prinses Paul van Joegoslavië (geboren prinses Olga van Griekenland en Denemarken), is zij verwant aan de meeste Europese vorstenhuizen en ook via haar is zij een afstammeling van koning Christian IX van Denemarken, de 'schoonvader van Europa'.

Hoewel de titel van hun reality soap anders doet vermoeden, is Catherine geen prinses (maar zo'n titel trekt de aandacht natuurlijk, dat was waarschijnlijk ook de bedoeling).

[Someone]

Het gaat hier om de reality soap 'I Married A Princess'.

Hoewel de titel van hun reality soap anders doet vermoeden, is Catherine geen prinses (maar zo'n titel trekt de aandacht natuurlijk, dat was waarschijnlijk ook de bedoeling).

Klinkt inderdaad beter dan "I married a princess' daughter"

[Royalty]

ik vond die serie eigenlijk niets maar ja ieder zijn smaak...

[Joke]

Al ma goed dat niet iedereen dezelfde smaak heeft. Het zou maar triestig zijn in de wereld. Ik vond de serie ook echt niet wat het moest zijn.

 art1.jpg   22,93K   49 downloads

Bewerkt door Joke, 21 april 2006 - 14:08 .

[The Watcher]

De foto's van de afgelopen maand uit Servie, oa. bezoeken aan speeltuinen, overstroomde gebieden etc. etc.

[Someone]

Er is weer eens een heel verhaal over de familie gepubliceerd. Best interessant!

APRIL 2006-MONTHLY PUBLICATION “MAGAZIN� SLOVENIA

KINGS WITHOUT KINGDOM

There are eight monarchies among the 25 EU states. Kings and queens represent these countries abroad, developing friendly relations with other people, and in different ways helping their people. All that, without sitting on the throne has been done by the Karadjordjevic family members that have returned to Belgrade after 60 years of exile.

The return of Karadjordjevic family is allowed by the decision of Federal Government in 2001, when the Royal Compound on Dedinje was returned for the use to the family of Serbian Crown Prince. Legal basis for final solution of the ownership for the famous Serbian family should have been a part of Denationalisation Law. All the property of the Karadjordjevic family was taken away overnight by AVNOJ decision on 2nd August 1947, and confiscation of palaces and other real estate by the Decree of FNRY National Assembly Presidency. With this act, return of all Karadjordjevic family members was banned. HRH Crown Prince Alexander, was born in London Claridge’s Hotel, where his parents King Peter and Queen Alexandra, Princess of Greece and Denmark lived till 1947. In order to assure that the heir to the throne be born in the Yugoslavian territory the British Government proclaimed the suite 212 Yugoslavian territory according to the instructions of the then Prime Minister Winston Churchill. The Crown Prince was christened in Westminster Abbey in presence of his godparents King George VI and his daughter, Princess at that time, now the Queen of Great Britain Elizabeth II. Since King Peter II never abdicated and the Crown is being passed automatically to the oldest son, after the King’s death in Denver, USA, in summer of 1970, the Crown Prince Alexander in fact became the King, but he himself decided to use the title of the Crown Prince. Alexander studied in Switzerland, at the Military Academy in USA, in Scotland and England, as well as at the Royal Academy of Great Britain. As an officer of the British Army he served in the Middle East, in Italy and Germany, and left the service in 1972.

Courageous fighters

The Military service of the heir to the throne can easily trick someone who is not so familiar with the Karadjordjevic Dynasty. They were famous in their history as great and fearless fighters. That was the characteristic of the Obrenovic Family too, which had five sovereigns of Serbia, just like the Karadjordjevic Family did. The Obrenovic’s were on the Throne of Princedom and Kingdom of Serbia, and were attached to the mother land just like the Dynasty Petrovic was attached to Montenegro. The Karadjordjevic’s were the only ones who became sovereigns of Croatians and Slovenians. While the Obrenovic’s were devoted to the idea of Serbian character, idea of south slavistic character and later Yugoslavian idea is connected to Karadjordjevic’s. That is the major difference between the two ruling dynasties. Chronicles present Karadjordjevic to be carriers of the heroic, and Obrenovic of a state creating idea. The latter were, according to many, better sovereigns, but they were coming to power very young, which is obvious if one takes a look at their “decisions�. Besides, there were differences in the wealth of these families, of which there are still different stories to hear. Professor of Faculty of Philosophy Dragoljub Zivojinovic clarifies all those stories with these words: “it is not right that Prince Milos was the richest sovereign in the Balkans, and also we could not claim that King Alexander the Unifier was the richest monarch of the Europe of that time�. He adds that the founder of the Dynasty Karadjordjevic was not a pragmatic and that his sons used to live in the exile thanks to the mercy of the Russian nobility. The next one Prince Alexander became the eminent officer and worked on buying the family property. It is he who could be considered the founder of the wealth of the Yugoslav King. After the WW1, he was receiving the appanage of 20 million dinars in Swiss francs from the Parliament. There were also shares of stock worth several millions of dinars …The English Daily Mail wrote only couple of months after the assassination in Marseilles in 1934: “King Alexander was the richest monarch in Europe. The cash he was saving at the foreign accounts is estimated to six million sterling pounds. He was the owner of two gold mines, he received income from the French owners of the third gold mine in Bor, out of which the French had dug 16 tons of gold and 32 tons of silver in 1935�. Great amounts of money were put aside for building of Palaces, hotels, villas and for the building of the Church in Oplenac where the passed away members of the family rest in peace. Bilje, Han Pijesak, Kavadarci, Milocer, Bled, Bohinj – all these villas are the most representative and mainly the protocol objects of the newly constituted states – were build from his own funds because he wished to leave something behind himself, so that people would remember him. “King was not rich, but the people were hardworking�, they used to say. According to the connoisseurs, Karadjordjevic’s lived a soldierly modest life. What they were building and leaving behind them was not so much for them, as much it was for the others. In their two centuries long history Karadjordjevic’s lost their wealth several times and started again from nothing.

Some of malicious critics spoke of them to be “arrogant rulers, bohemians, gamblers and quarrelsome persons�. On the other hand, the supporters of Karadjordjevic’s claimed that members of the Royal Family have “superb feeling for family, economy, charity, humanitarian work and donations�. This is exactly what best describes Crown Prince Alexander and his wife. In Serbia there are on going polemics about the point of restoration of monarchist political system.

“For rulers we had great tyrants like Milos Obrenovic and Nikola I of Montenegro, but other kings were not carriers of parliamentarism, justice and equality in society, hence the return of the monarchy would divide the Serbian society further more only “- thinks sociologists Desimir Tosic and adds: “Karadjordjevic were indeed great battle leaders, but they were not attached to democracy. King Alexander had promised to the people in Yugoslavia that he will bring the democratic system, and on 6 April 1929 he broke the people’s faith and introduced dictatorship�.

Pleaders for the monarchy also have the strong arguments: “Monarchy will help the renewal of the Serbian identity. Monarchy alone really does not solve the question of democracy, but it is also perfectly clear that today it would be impossible to restore the monarchy that would enable the king to become a tyrant. The British laws and Parliament set boundaries for Cromwell. I am led to have more trust in a person with a family tree than to someone who fell from the Mars, says one of the pleaders for the monarchist idea and Professor at the Law Faculty Radolav Stojanovic. In favour of this are the events in the recent political history of Serbia: in 1989, the Crown Prince actively joined the fight against the authoritarian regime of Slobodan Milosevic.

He had meetings with democratic opposition and pleaded for democratic transfiguration of society. He is pleading for it today as well, but from his home in Belgrade, where he lives since 2001

He had meetings with democratic opposition and pleaded for democratic transfiguration of society. He is pleading for it today as well, but from his home in Belgrade, where he lives since 2001. More about it you can read in exclusive interview with Alexander Karadjordjevic.

[Someone]

Vervolg van dit artikel. Nu een interview met de kroonprins.

EXCLUSIVELY: alexander II Karadjordjevic

We came back not to take but rather to give

MAGAZIN: Do you have any friends in Slovenia and have you ever been here? If not, would you like to visit Slovenia?

Sadly, I have never been to Slovenia. It would be a pleasure to visit beautiful Slovenia. Over the years, I met many Slovenians and deeply value their friendship. It is also nice that several Slovenian companies have come to invest in Serbia and to create jobs, I am grateful for this.

MAGAZIN: To what extent your personal life has changed after your decision to return to Serbia during the summer 2001? Do you have any intention to take more active role in political life of Serbia?

It was not my intention to become a politician but rather to be a meeting point of unity and continuity. Many people have asked me if I wanted to go into politics and my answer is that we need a neutral person like a constitutional parliamentary monarch who will not take sides, but rather be the unifying factor. In a constitutional parliamentary monarchy, the government is elected in democratic elections and the monarch provides the meeting point of stability, unity and continuity. This works very well in many European Union countries and not to forget Japan and so on. Our people deserve stability and our politicians must be united for the common good of the country and not enter into conflict or argument therefore weakening the country.

MAGAZIN: There is a number of Monarchy supporters in Serbia, but, majority is pro-republican. Do you think that public opinion can be changed and is it possible to regain the Monarchy in Serbia?

The monarchy during our regimes or dictatorships was vilified and spat upon by propaganda. Whenever there was a scandal or corruption, the monarchy was used as a fog screen. After more than 55 years when I came back with my family to my grandfather’s and father’s home and there was no one that had a valid reason against it. My human rights were violated when I was only two years old in 1947 when Kardelj signed a decree making me an enemy of the state – I must have been very dangerous to have my nationality removed and my rights at that ripe old age. Today in view of all the propaganda, the feeling for constitutional parliamentary monarchy is apparent and alive. Even though there has not been any campaign, I see the people throughout Serbia as very warm and interested in the institution and this crosses the party political divide. We came back not to take but rather to give and of course, I have had the experience to have lived in democratic countries which I think is important knowledge to share with the people.

MAGAZIN: What is the role of Royal Families in Europe (Spain, Norway etc)? What is the advantage of Monarchies comparing to republics in Europe?

There are good republics and good constitutional monarchies. Providing the head of state is neutral and not active in party politics both have merit. The example of Spain’s transition from a dictatorship to democracy and member of the European Union under the unifying factor of constitutional monarchy that binds Spain together is a fine example of a modern successful democratic country. The role of the monarchy and the immediate family is to work united in the best interest of the country allowing the democratically elected government through the prime minister to rule the country without interference from another entity. The monarch reigns.

MAGAZIN: What are the experiences of European Royal Families that you know and what can be implemented in Serbia?

There are many examples of constitutional parliamentary monarchy within the European Union and beyond such as Spain, Belgium, The Netherlands, Luxembourg, United Kingdom, Denmark and Sweden. We must not forget Japan, New Zealand, Thailand, Norway, Australia and Canada. All are a very fine example of stability, unity and continuity. The experiences of all the countries I mention are an example to us and we can most certainly emulate and study each case.

MAGAZIN: What has changed regarding the role of Monarch during the centuries and what skills are needed?

Monarchs have evolved over the centuries into the defenders of democracy and stability. There is no doubt that republics have done the same. There have been abuses of power and scandals here and there, but the role and example of constitutional parliamentary monarchies is a most interesting one to look at.

MAGAZIN: What are your personal experiences after five years in Serbia? Do you feel that you are at home when you come back from abroad to Serbia?

It was emotional to come back to ones roots. My father was home sick and all the things he told me were in my mind when we moved into his home. I must say that since we are talking about this my father loved Slovenia very much and always had fond memories of his youth there. I feel very much at home here and everyone has been so good to my family and me.

MAGAZIN: What was the hardest for you while you lived abroad? What memories gave you your father His Majesty King Peter II?

The hardest for me was to see my poor father suffer from homesickness and illness. I have very fond memories of my father and playing with him and listening to his experiences. I remember how much my father loved mechanical things, we would take some toys apart and sometimes we would put them back together and they would not work. I am sorry that my father never returned home.

MAGAZIN: What was the hardest thing for you when you came back to Serbia? How did people accept you? What are the questions you get from the ordinary, common people?

The hardest for my wife and me was the horror of the conflict in the Former Yugoslavia: death, injury, destruction, refugees, ethnic cleansing and total madness. The terrible use of negative religion and negative nationalism for the purpose power against the people. We visited many places and saw poverty and misery. That is why my wife is working hard with humanitarian projects. We respect all religions and ethnic origin so we wish to support everyone. Everyone accepted us and we feel very happy. We get many questions during our travels and from people who visit us. There are many appeals for help and many requests to visit so many places.

MAGAZIN: Do your sons love Belgrade and do they find Serbian mentality and language strange?

The language is not easy and not a piece of cake, but we try to move ahead and learn something new everyday. The boys enjoy being in Belgrade and have many friends and they love snowboarding in Kopaonik, maybe one day they will go to Slovenia to snowboard. We are part of our mentality and inheritance.

MAGAZIN: What is your personal opinion regarding position of Western Balkan and former Yugoslavia in ten years from now? Is everybody going to be in EU? Is it possible to gain total normalization of relations after the bloodshed in former Yugoslavia?

With some hard work and hope, we should all be sooner than later members of the European Union and work together for the common good of everyone regardless of their religion or ethnic origin. We need each other to survive in the modern competitive world we work to create good market economies that in turn fund good social services. We all leave in a beautiful part of Europe that deserves to have a great future after so much tragedy and pain.

[Someone]

Het Servische koningshuis is ws. nog steeds niet blij, maar hun verre familie; de Montenegrijnen zeker wel:

Servische erkenning van Montenegro

Servië erkent Montenegro als staat en wil diplomatieke betrekkingen met het land aanknopen. Verder mogen studenten uit Montenegro die in Servië studeren hun studie in dat land afmaken.

De regering in Belgrado vindt het ook goed dat Montenegrijnen die in Servië wonen de Servische nationaliteit houden naast hun Montenegrijnse.

Vorige maand stemde een meerderheid van de bevolking van Montenegro tijdens een referendum voor afscheiding van Servië. Nadat verscheidene landen het land hadden erkend, steeg de spanning omdat Servië niets liet horen. Maar nu lijkt de kou uit de lucht.

[prinses Louise]

Een foto uit 1968 van prins Alexander met naast hem zijn tante Margaretha von Baden en achter hem zijn oom Tomislav. Wie weet meer van deze Tomislav van Joegoslavie...ik heb op wikipedia gekeken maar niets kunnen vinden.

[Arjan]

Een foto uit 1968 van prins Alexander met naast hem zijn tante Margaretha von Baden en achter hem zijn oom Tomislav. Wie weet meer van deze Tomislav van Joegoslavie...ik heb op wikipedia gekeken maar niets kunnen vinden.

Prins Tomislav (1928-2000) was de jongere broer van koning Peter II, de vader van kroonprins Alexander. Zijn eerste vrouw was prinses Margarita van Baden, wier moeder een zus was van de Britse prins Philip. Tomislav en Margarita scheidden en Tomislav trouwde in 1982 met de Britse Linda Bonney.

In de latere jaren van zijn leven kwam de relatie met zijn neef Alexander onder druk te staan nadat Tomislav zelf begon te ijveren voor herstel van de monarchie, waarmee hij zijn neef voor de voeten liep.

[Someone]

Speciaal voor Prinses hier 2 stambomen.

Alleen de rechte lijn.
Stamboom met wijdere vertakkingen, alleen de laatste generaties (door op een naam te klikken, kun je ook het nageslacht van die persoon zien).